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How Internal Narratives Affect Psychedelic Healing Potential

Erika Perez
Erika, Head of Content at Psychedelic Passage, plucks the natural chord of human curiosity to initiate dialogue that meets readers wherever they are in their life’s journey. She reminds you that inquisition is always a reliable road to self development, and that bringing more light to your own truth helps others to awaken to theirs.

How internal narratives predict the efficacy of psychedelic therapy is an incredible conversation about the stories that we tell ourselves and how they come to shape our reality. Starting with the basics of what an internal narrative is and how it works, our hosts delve into the nuances of how our brains create and reinforce these mental stories and dialogues. 

They explore how these narratives can be both helpful and harmful, and give us practical tools for curating positive internal narratives that serve our highest Truth. How can we reframe negative self-talk to improve our mental health? 

How do we balance acknowledging our emotions while not becoming attached to them? In this thought-provoking episode, our hosts will challenge you to think differently about the stories you tell yourself and give you the tools to create a more self-supportive internal narrative.

Episode 32 – How Internal Narratives Affect Psychedelic Healing Potential

Nick: Welcome to the Psychedelic Passage podcast. My name is Nick Levich. I am here with my co-host, Jimmy Nguyen. Thank you for joining us this week. We have a really great topic for you all this week, which is essentially this concept of the stories we tell ourselves, often referred to as internal narratives. The key here is that we all have an internal narrative. 

I’ve heard rumors that some people don’t have this, which is a very small percentage of folks in the world, but for most of us here listening, we all have an internal narrative. That little voice inside of our head that we can choose to listen to or not listen to. But it’s prevalent in all of us. The question is, how does this play into something like an intentional psychedelic journey?

How Internal Narratives Relate to Psychedelic Experiences

Jimmy: Yeah, that’s where I wanted to start with this, is why does it even matter? Why does this affect? Why are we even talking about this in a psychedelic-oriented podcast? 

As we talk through some of these concepts today, I think our listeners will see that it’s actually not how it affects psychedelic experiences, it’s the fact that the narratives and stories actually affect the whole way that we perceive our lives and that we move through events and experiences. 

If you don’t have awareness of your internal narratives, if you don’t have awareness around how those are formulated and what goes into all of that, then you will likely stand to not get the most out of your psychedelic experiences, intentional psychedelic experiences

They’re related and we’ll chat through them today because psychedelics stand at the center of all these things, our emotions, our feelings, what we believe, the neuroscience of our brains. It’s actually really applicable when we’re talking about these narratives and stories as it relates to intentional psychedelic work.

Nick: Well, and I want to be clear that part of the relationship that exists here is that psychedelics help us transcend those narratives because the fact of the matter is a lot of people go through the world thinking that their thoughts are them, thinking that internal narrative is them.

Jimmy: Yeah. René Descartes, “I think, therefore I am,” which is limited. It’s limited because that means that you have to have linear thought in order to exist. And I actually don’t think that that’s true.

Nick: Yea, I disagree.

Jimmy: There is so much more to it.

Nick: I think one of the things that is interesting about psychedelics is that they expand our awareness to a point where it becomes clear that there is more to us as a human, as a soul, than just that internal narrative. But until you’ve had the experience of transcending it, it’s very easy to think that that narrative is you. “Oh, I’m a shitty person,” “Oh, I have anxiety.” 

It doesn’t matter what the story is or what the label is. But if that’s all you’ve been telling yourself and you’ve never experienced a world where that wasn’t the narrative that’s playing. It’s hard to imagine that it’s not you.

Factors That Influence Our Internal Narratives

Jimmy: Mm-hmm. Let’s break this down a little bit because I know that we want to spend time probably on the latter half of this episode to talk about the impact, the influence that narratives and stories have on intentional psychedelic work. 

But I want to back up a little bit and just talk through this for a second. There are events that happen in our lives, and then there are the things that we focus on out of those events, there’s a lot of scientific studies to say that memory is not foolproof and that it’s not this record-keeping thing.

Nick: It’s definitely not accurate. [chuckles]

Jimmy: It’s malleable and our memory changes over time. There’s the events that happen, there are what we focus on, there are the feelings and emotions around that, the things that you experience, and then also like the things that you judge about it. 

There are our beliefs, which are maybe our own beliefs. They may be family beliefs, they may be societal beliefs. All of those things add up to narratives and stories. What ends up happening is when we then go back to recall these things, we’re sharing it or reliving it through the perspective of our story. So, then what happens is that the story then ends up being first. 

And then everything that you recall about the experience comes through the lens of that story because it has to fit that narrative. Another part that you’re talking about, I think, are the internal narratives, which are, I think, stories and beliefs that we have about ourselves. 

That’s also an interesting part of this. Things like, “Oh, I’m not athletic, I’m not lovable, I am really capable, I do deserve this, or I don’t deserve this.” All of these things are stories that we tell ourselves. And those get accumulated over time. 

If you keep telling yourself the same story or if somebody else tells you the same story over and over again and over again, especially in your early childhood, when the learning brain is still absorbing a lot of this information, then those become beliefs about ourselves. You can see how that directly impacts our life experience and how we view ourselves and our lives.

Nick: Whether it’s true or not, it doesn’t really matter because if you believe it’s true. Here’s the kicker: our bodies are always listening. I think we’ve all had that experience of doing something dumb and we say to ourselves, ” Ah, I’m such an idiot.” 

Yeah, I do this all the time. And then I have to pause and correct and go, “Oh, I’m not an idiot, I just made a little mistake, and here’s what I should have done instead, or whatever.” 

You can see very quickly how oftentimes that single story, that single narrative, could be the root cause of someone’s entire depression or entire anxiety, and I’m not saying it’s always the case, but you can see how a very detrimental internal narrative can totally change the way someone goes through the world. 

I think it’s important that we give an example for folks who maybe don’t know what we mean here around how two people can go through the same event and walk away with totally different narratives. I’m just going to take a shot out of a cannon here, but let’s say-

Jimmy: Lay it on them, Nick!

[chuckles]

How Internal Narratives Influence Our Reactions & Reality

Nick: Two people get into a car crash and one person is like, “This is the worst thing that’s ever happened to me. I got injured. I can’t work. It’s ruined my life. It cost a lot of money. I’ve got to fix my car,” all this stuff. 

The person in the passenger seat who went through the exact same experience comes away in a couple of months and goes, “Oh, that was the best thing that ever happened to me, because now I’ve got a better relationship with my body. 

I proved myself that I can heal from within. I’ve got this resiliency.” And so, two different people walk away from the exact same event with two totally different narratives.

Jimmy: Yeah. The passenger might be like, “Thank God, the seatbelt worked.”

Nick: Right.

Jimmy: “Thank goodness this car did its thing and protected me. Thank goodness there weren’t other people involved or on the road.” You can see how the narrative of the story; they typically line up with our just kind of general disposition anyways. 

If you’re walking around in the world looking for the problems and the conflicts and issues, look, I also acknowledge that in our society nowadays- [laughter]

Jimmy: -it’s a lot of problems, conflicts, and issues. But if you’re going out looking for that,-

Nick: You’ll find it.

Jimmy: -you’re going to find it, and then you’re going to have the narratives and stories that reinforce that. It’s something interesting. I’m going to totally butcher this, but it’s something related to our reticular activation system.

Nick: Yeah, exactly.

Jimmy: Which means that if we are looking for patterns and things, then we will find the patterns and things that–[crosstalk]

Nick: It’s the same reason if you’re looking to buy a new car and you’re looking for Tesla, for instance, you’ll see more Teslas on the road because that’s what you’re thinking about. That’s the car that you’re internally focused on and searching for. But if you switch to a Ford Bronco, the same experience will happen. “Oh, there’s a lot of Ford Broncos out today.”

Jimmy: Yeah. It’s a part of our human evolution. It was really helpful in the hunter-gatherer stage to be able to see patterns and to identify things and to point out things. 

Now that we live in this modern society, we have to reorient what that looks like, and it is beyond just the physiological side of it because I think what you and I are commenting on is the internal, mental, and emotional landscape around this stuff. 

I’ll even take your example even further. Imagine if you’re in a car crash, but you’re in the car that was rear-ended versus the car that did the rear-ending. It’s the same event. 

It’s the same event, but you’re going to have much different narratives and stories out of that and much different reactions and responses. One thing that I’ll share in line of like, framing up these dynamics is something that comes from Jack Canfield. 

This was taught to me by one of my great coaches of mine, and it’s E+R=O. What that says is that Events + Responses = Outcome. You see how that’s related to what we’re trying to establish here. But what that actually means is in that the event is the fixed variable or is the fixed component.

Nick: Yeah.

Jimmy: The reaction and the response is the variable part. The whole point of being able to acknowledge and address your narratives and your stories, even the asking what’s the story here? What’s the events or what are my beliefs, what are my feelings around it? Even asking yourself those things can help you to start to filter some of this stuff out. 

The one thing that I really like about E+R=O, is it denotes this radical responsibility, which is really empowering and also really scary for folks and know that you are in control on how you respond and react to things and those responses and reactions are likely heavily, heavily influenced by the stories and your internal narrative.

Nick: It’s a great little formula.

Jimmy: I think about like, this is going to be cliche, but they always say Jordan got cut from the Varsity team or he was only JV and whatever. If he took that and allowed his narrative or belief that that’s it and that he’s limited and that he’s not talented or whatever, then it would be different–

Nick: That would be the end of it.

Jimmy: It would be the end of it. That’s the other thing that I want to bring up, is that the stories are also dictated by timeline. If the story for Jordan ended there, likely that’s a sad ending to that movie. But then you get to see the things that he did, at least in his professional career. 

I don’t know enough about the guy to talk about his personal life or whatever. And so, it depends on that. If the story ended in the 90s after he retired the first time, that would be different. 

But the story is still ongoing, you know it’s where it is now. Also just remember that timeline is also important here. If the movie cuts off midway through without resolution or whatever, then it can feel unfinished. 

You also want to give yourself a little bit of time to allow things to play out. I think for the folks who are reaching the more advanced levels of checking their narratives and stories, you can also just see how stories evolve over time.

Something that’s super traumatic and awful and terrible, like, God forbid, the loss of a loved one or something like that, I know how grieving the loss of a loved one can actually lead to a lot of healing, a lot of understanding, and a lot of just learning. 

It’s just important to allow life to unfold a little before you’re so attached to these narratives and stories that you tell yourself. And likely you’re doing this all unconsciously. Usually, this is not something that you’re like, “Oh, I’m going to weave a story on how I’m pissed off about this.” It just happens [chuckles] unconsciously.

Why It’s Important to be Conscious of Your Internal Narratives

Nick: That’s why I specifically wanted to record this episode is because most of us do this behavior of establishing internal narratives and stories unconsciously. The problem with that is we can’t change it if we’re not aware that it’s happening. 

This is where, enter, psilocybin, or your psychedelic of choice, is that they allow us to zoom out and notice the narrative. It’s that shift in perception, that shift in awareness, that actually allows us to start to rewrite things.

Because someone who’s so tightly wound, and so identified with those stories to the point where they don’t even know that it’s happening, it’s almost compulsive. You can’t really separate yourself from it. 

It’s hard to insert that space, that distance, but that temporary zoom out, that temporary shift in awareness that something like a psychedelic ceremony can provide. All of a sudden, your worldview has been expanded, and you’ve seen it for what it is, a narrative that you can shift, that changes everything.

Jimmy: Yeah, I really like what you said about stepping outside of it because when you’re in the middle of it, [laughs] it’s so hard to see what’s actually going on– whether you look at this from a neurological perspective, a spiritual perspective, a physiological perspective.

We’re talking about being able to look at your habits and patterns and behaviors and internal narratives in a different light, in a different perspective. Yeah, maybe it’s not psilocybin for you, totally fine.

Nick: I mean, meditation does the same thing. You just start to see things for what they are, and you go, “Oh, my God, I’m watching this narrative float by, and I’m witnessing it. I’m not it. I’m just experiencing it happening.” There’s a lot of different ways to get here

If you want to do the meditation route, the breathwork route, the sound healing route, the exercise route, whatever it is. But for some people, those really stubborn, persistent narratives. “I’m not good enough.” “I’m not worthy.” “I’m not lovable.” 

Those things, we all tend to carry some scrap of one of those around with us. The more we can become aware of when that narrative is playing a role in our day-to-day experience, the faster we can adjust it, because here’s the beauty of narratives, we can change them at any time. 

It takes just as much work to say and to think and to feel I’m a lucky person as it does to think I’m an unlucky person. It’s kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. That’s the really important part about these stories is that whether or not you believe them or not, they tend to be self-fulfilling.

How Your Speech Patterns Reinforce Limiting Beliefs

Jimmy: As you were sharing, something that comes up for me is having this conversation a long time ago with somebody who is much, much smarter than I, and they were talking about the way that we address emotions and feelings. Two things come up for me. 

One is that out of the 1000-plus words to describe emotions and feelings in North American English, we typically use about 15 to 20 of them. In addition to that, the way that we say in emotion has identity baked into it. So, I am angry.

Nick: Mm.

Jimmy: I am sad.

Nick: As opposed to I feel angry, I feel sadness.

Jimmy: And so, it’s already baked in there. It’s already baked in that you’re identifying as this emotion or as this feeling. Talk about that self-fulfilling prophecy. If you wake up and you’re like today is going to be a bad day or I’m frustrated or I’m angry about this thing, you’re going to find those patterns and those reasons and those excuses to be that feeling and emotion. 

I also just want to asterisk that to say that this is not about overriding the things that you feel. If you are feeling angry or frustrated or in love or happy or elated, for sure express every color of your rainbow, I am here to support you. 

What we are saying though is that there are usually some internal narratives and stories that are a part of it. Some of the major ones that I see that are the most destructive, especially for people seeking a psychedelic experience, I’ll just list off a couple. 

“I’m broken, I’m a lost cause, this is my Hail Mary, I’ve tried everything and this is my last resort.” And I can go on and on and on. But you can see how that would directly affect the potential outcome of your experience.

A lot of the questions that Nick and I ask folks when we’re getting to know them or whatnot exploring potential facilitation relationships is like, “Do you believe that change is possible? Do you believe that you have the internal tools?” 

What if the psychedelic experience isn’t meeting your “expectation?” Do you believe that there’s a process beyond this or that there’s an opportunity or that there’s something to be gained even from challenging and difficult and overwhelming experiences

You gotta check yourself with those things before you even move into the ceremonial space. Don’t rely on just the medicine or the psychedelic substance or compound to allow you to step outside of those narratives.

The more that you can do this leading up to the ceremony, I will guarantee that it will positively benefit you in some way. I’m not going to say how, I’m going to say when, but I just know time and time again that when folks get real clear on, “What’s the narrative?- 

What’s the truth for me here? What’s the event that happened? What’s my belief? What’s my emotion around this? Oh, has this narrative been a thing that I’ve been telling myself? When did I start telling myself that?” 

“Oh, is this from when I had a traumatic event when I was a kid, that was something that I told myself? This something that my parents told me? Or is this something that a teacher told me one time?” 

Just even asking yourself those questions can go a really, really long way of just dissecting what’s a story, what’s an internal narrative versus the events that are actually happening in that situation.

How Internal Narratives Affect Psychedelic Healing Potential

Nick: Super well stated. Beautiful. That internal inquisitive exploration process really helps bring some of this to light. You’ve touched on this, but this starts in preparation. We start this process the second you’ve committed to a psychedelic experience. 

During the psychedelic experience, oftentimes there’s this first-hand direct experience of transcending the whole thing, of stepping outside of it, of seeing things as they are without the story, without the narrative. That’s a beautiful thing because pandora doesn’t go back into the box. 

Once you’ve become aware of it, you can’t become unaware of it afterwards. That’s the beauty of the ceremony itself, is that oftentimes we become aware of these things that you just can’t unsee afterwards. That brings us to the integration side of the arc here. This is where I tend to see people get a little bit hung up because you still have to practice flexing that muscle of awareness. 

It’s so easy after the ceremony, you have a couple of weeks of afterglow you’re feeling good, and 14 days later, whatever it is, you go, “Oh, I’m feeling depressed. I’m just feeling depressed this morning.” Now, there’s nothing inherently wrong with feeling depressed. We all feel it. It’s part of the human range of emotion. The problem is when you attach a story to it. 

We as humans are really interesting in that when we’re feeling any emotion, but particularly the emotions that are less than savory, the first thing we want to do is go, “Why? Why?” The fastest way to answer that is with a story. 

“I’m depressed? Okay, why am I depressed? Oh, maybe it’s because I’m going backward.” That’s a story. “Maybe it’s because I’m not good enough.” That’s a story. “Maybe it’s because the mushrooms didn’t work.” 

That’s a story. The true answer is, oftentimes we don’t even know. We’re just feeling something. It’s this desire to figure out why right here, right now, that often, like guinea pigs us or forces us into attaching a story to it. 

This is one of the beautiful lessons that I have taken away from one of my mentors, is like, “If we’re willing to withhold the story from the emotion, boy, does it pass more quickly,” because the story is actually what keeps the emotion on loop. 

So, I’ll give you an example. We’ll stick with the depression thing. If we go with the depression one and it’s because I’m not good enough, and I tell myself I’m not good enough, then I feel more depressed. And then I’m depressed because I’m not good enough. 

And then I feel more depressed. It’s this flywheel that starts moving once you’ve got the emotion with your story attached to it. If we can just feel the full force of the emotion, and do the best we can to withhold the narrative, it will fundamentally change the integration process.

Jimmy: Yeah, that when you are finding yourself in that state, and that’s the main narrative that’s happening, then guess what? You’re going to find a whole bunch of things that are going to reinforce that you’re not good enough. 

You’re going to find a million things out there that could reinforce your story or your belief that you’re not good enough. The other thing that I hear and what you’re saying is, “How attached are we to these stories?” 

Which is how we started the conversation, which is “How do we identify? Do we identify as our thoughts? Do we identify as our emotions? Do we identify as these stories?” So how attached are we to that?” 

Look, there are some stories that have– this is just as powerful on the opposite end, like the positive stories that we tell ourselves, the story of where our families come from, and what our ancestors have been through, the story of our society has a lot of opinions [laughs] and different narratives around that. 

But you can also see how stories aren’t all bad. That’s not what we’re saying. We’re saying that you are the writer of the story and that you have the opportunity to write the story that’s true for you.

Nick: In a way that serves you.

Jimmy: Right, and in a way that’s authentic to you as well. Most stories have some bias built into it. You can only really see it from your limited view, and you may not get all the data on what happened in that event, and most stories have judgment baked into it. 

But what if you were telling your stories from a place of empowerment? What if you are telling your stories from a place of non-judgmentalness? What if you’re telling stories from a place of looking for opportunities for growth and healing? I guarantee you that those are different. 

I’m not going to say better or worse, they’re different. It just depends on what you’re looking for. It depends on what the emotional outcome is that you’re seeking. Just know that’s how powerful these things are. 

They really, actually do go both ways and that leads to what we were chatting about earlier, where there could be multiple narratives and stories that exist within you at any given time. Some mesh well with themselves, some are [laughs] really incongruent, and some are straight up just in conflict with each other. That’s a hard thing to organize and process. 

For me, I was told, and I believed for my entire life that I was unathletic and incapable from a sports standpoint and blah, blah, I can go into a whole thing about racism, being a young Asian boy, and whatever, but like you know, Nick, you and I went skiing like a month ago and I’m like ripping turns and going 50 per hour.

I’m like, “Oh, there’s athleticism there.” And so that then affects the way that I think about physical exercise and physical pursuits and my physical capabilities. So, I’m in this place now of rewriting those things after 30 some odd years. Imagine how powerful this would be. 

The best things that I love is when I see these small little social media videos, whatever, and the parents are with their kid doing words of affirmation in the mirror before they go to school or like they’re doing it in school.

I’m like that’s super dope because they’re choosing to tell that narrative and to tell that story and it’s never too late. You always have this opportunity. Though it’s a little bit different if you’ve gone through a couple of decades in your life telling yourself a certain story versus earlier.

How to Integrate Productive Internal Narratives Into Your Life

Nick: It just takes more time to unpack it. This is the key in integration, is just because you’ve had the ceremony, doesn’t give you a free pass. You still got to watch that story. This whole integration process is a game of awareness. 

It’s can you continually check your shit and go, “Oh, was that an autopilot story? Or is that actually what I want to be telling myself?” And here’s the thing, we can’t control our thoughts, so sometimes those stories just go, but we can control whether we listen to them or not. 

And so, Ram Dass says this beautifully, he always says, “When you come back from a journey, all your neuroses will still be there. You just get to choose whether you listen to them or not, whether you act on them or not.” That’s the freedom that we all seek. 

This is why, to me, this concept of stories is so important as it relates to psychedelics, is because the psychedelic is the tool that allows us to transcend them. But then we still have to live the rest of our lives minding our mind, paying extra attention to those stories at play.

Jimmy: Yeah, and that happens live and in real-time. You can’t just be like, “Oh, I identified all my stories, so I’m good now.” Well, guess what? You’re going to be building new stories in every- well probably waking or sleeping moment of your life. I really like what you’re saying and that reminds me of our episode about what the work actually is-

Nick: Exactly.

Jimmy: -after a ceremony. And this requires active and ongoing participation. So, you may not be ready for that. You may be ready for it. You may prioritize this as the most important thing. You may not, “Hey, power of choice, you do you.” 

But I will share with you that for anybody who’s moving into a psychedelic experience, for any type of personal growth, regardless of how you define, regardless of the story that you put around it and how you define your personal growth-

You got to be ready to roll your sleeves up and go the whole way because this process doesn’t stop. You can’t just go through it and then be like, “Ah, I’m good now.” Turn it off or look–[crosstalk]

Nick: Well, you can, but you want to know what goes out the window? Internal integrity. If you’re not sure what that is, go back [Jimmy laughs] to our episode list and listen to that one because it’s like you’re lying to yourself at a certain point, and that has a whole host of repercussions if we go down that road. 

The key here is that you cannot control everything, but the one thing you have full autonomy over is that story. Write yourself one that’s important to you, that’s meaningful, that serves you, that helps you heal and grow and evolve into the person you want to become.

Jimmy: Yeah. I’ll also just share that there’s somewhat of a dark side to this as well.

Nick: 100%.

Jimmy: Meaning that, if you’re trying to rewrite your stories from a place of control and from a place of not acknowledging your true feelings, emotions, or your true or in an authentic way, then that can also backfire. 

Again, we’re not saying that, “Oh, I’m not feeling depression or anxiety,” or “I’m not feeling grief.” That’s not what we’re talking about.

Nick: That’s bypassing.

Jimmy: That’s bypassing.

Nick: It’s pretending something’s not there.

Jimmy: What we’re talking about is how do you find this balance of acknowledging all of it from expressing all the iterations of what you’re feeling and what you’re thinking and what you believe about these things, but then not being attached to it, not being on autopilot, not allowing this to happen unconsciously without you being aware of it. 

How do you reframe the story while still feeling what you’re feeling in a way that serves the highest and truest you? I’ll use the grief thing because it’s just coming up for me, you are leaning on the depression one, I’m kind of leaning on the grief one. 

One narrative that I have refixed in my life around grieving the loss of loved ones is that the grief is actually a sign that our relationship mattered, that I care about them, and that I miss them when they’re gone. And then I still feel all the stuff. I still feel all the pain. 

I still feel all the things. But before, when I was thinking about grief, I was like, “Why is this happening to me? Why am I suffering? Why did they inflict this pain on me?” And then that turns into anger and all this stuff. And then now I’m like, “Oh, actually, this grieving is my way of honoring that relationship.” You can just see how powerful that has on something so– 

Nick: And you still have the grief- [crosstalk]

Jimmy: Oh, my goodness.

Nick: -but it changes your whole outlook, and it removes that flywheel that we’re talking about because when you’re in victim mode and you’re feeling grief, “Ooh, is that self-perpetuating?”

A Recap on How to Curate Positive Internal Narratives

Jimmy: Oh, man, oh, yeah. Especially then when you have 15 different stories and narratives smacking you up in the face about all– Ooh, lord knows. [chuckles] I feel like we’ve gone deep enough, I think, in our conversation here. 

This is obviously a nuanced topic, and we hope that we’ve delivered this to you in a way that not only makes sense, I think, theoretically, but in a way where you’re like, “Ah, I can maybe take this conversation and apply it in some way, in your life.

Nick: Practicality, is what we’re going for here. It’s not about any one particular belief system or lens of looking through life. It’s practical like we all have this mechanism, or most of us at least have this mechanism that exists. 

The question is, how do we work with it? That’s what this episode is about, is recognizing that this dynamic exists and then relearning how to work with it, because we’re not taught that. I certainly didn’t graduate from any school and go, “Oh, I now know how to work with my internal narratives.”

Jimmy: Well, we’re not even aware of it, let alone how to work with it. [laughs]

Nick: Exactly. That’s part of the reason that I wanted to record this episode because people fall into one of these two camps. Either they’re not even aware that it’s happening, or they’re aware it’s happening, but they have no framework to– [crosstalk]

Jimmy: [crosstalk] it

Nick: -to engage with it? Exactly.

Jimmy: Mm-hmm.

Nick: Hopefully this helps all of you. Is there anything else that you want to add, Jimmy?

Jimmy: I’ll just express again that you’re much more empowered than you think you are. That’s kind of the crux of this whole thing. We can talk all day about stories and how they affect us, but if we can’t do anything about it, then kind of a moot point. 

I just want to acknowledge the sovereignty and the power and the capability of everybody who’s listening to this. This is my direct prod for you. If anybody’s listening to what I just said and feeling that’s not true or that’s not so on and so forth, well, then I’ll just check you to say you just told yourself a story there and so just really dive into your capability. [crosstalk] 

Nick: And if you fall into that category, it’s okay. It’s a sign that you can start to engage in an activity that starts to increase your awareness around those stories. If you feel the way that Jimmy just described, perhaps that’s a sign to try meditation, try some breathwork, or whatever kind of modality works for you. 

It does not have to be psychedelics. There’s plenty of different ways to start to increase some distance between those automatic compulsive narratives and your awareness. The part of you that’s going, “Huh, that’s an interesting way that I’m talking to myself right now.” 

That little bit of distance means everything because that’s that moment of pause that inflection point that allows you to change the way you do it. If you guys have any questions, you’re more than welcome to reach out to us at any time. We thank you for tuning in with us this week.

You can download episodes of The Psychedelic Passage Podcast on all major platforms Apple Podcast, Amazon, Spotify, IHeartRadio, or wherever else you get your podcast. 

If you like the show, please review us, leave us a rating. It helps others find the show. You’re more than welcome to share with your network if you think someone could benefit. We look forward to seeing you guys next week.

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Public education on this topic is the number one way to engage social support for this psychedelic mental health movement. Thus, we invite you to head on over to our resources page for more informative articles like this one. As always, safe and mindful journeying, friends!




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At Psychedelic Passage, we offer professional 1-on-1 guidance and companionship on your journey of healing. We simply can't sit back and let Americans continue to sit in silent suffering trying to battle mental health issues within a broken health care system, all while knowing that effective alternatives exist. We stand for the sacred, at-home, ceremonial use of psychedelics for consciousness exploration, which we believe to be a fundamental human right.

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