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How Often Should I Take Psychedelic Mushrooms?

How often should I take psychedelic mushrooms? In this episode, Nicholas Levich and Jimmy Nguyen explore a frequently asked question– How often is too often, when journeying with psychedelics? How can you determine if it’s the right time to embark on another medium to high-dose psychedelic journey?

They confront this question by highlighting the importance of integrating your previous psychedelic experience(s). Psychedelics are a non-prescriptive approach to mental health. Thus, our hosts examine how this can and should affect our relationship to psychedelic healing.

What role do our motivations play in determining frequency of psilocybin mushroom use? How can we discern if our mind, body, and spirit are ready for another journey? Later, they examine frequency of use in clients of Psychedelic Passage to offer tangible information on dosing timelines.

Our hosts detail common practices in international retreat centers to explain the current frequency-related advantages brought forth by U.S. based psychedelic therapy models. To close off, they review supplementary practices that aid in mental wellness, aside from psychedelic experiences.  

Episode 27 – How Often Should I Take Psychedelic Mushrooms?

Nick: Welcome to the Psychedelic Passage podcast. My name is Nick Levich. I’m joined here by my co-host, Jimmy Nguyen. Thanks for joining us today. 

This week, what we are talking about one of the questions that we get very frequently, which is “how often should I take psychedelic mushrooms”, or really any other psychedelic for that matter, especially when approaching it from a more therapeutic, wellness, or growth-oriented standpoint? So, what’s your answer to the question?

[laughter]

Jimmy: Well, it’s funny, we’re talking about the frequency of psychedelic experiences because this question comes up really quite frequently. Before we dive in, I think it’s worth talking about some context here. 

Today we’ll be discussing some parameters around large-dose experiences or experiences that do elicit a hallucinogenic altered state of consciousness. I think that that cadence and timing is different than microdosing, which is–

Nick: Different.

Jimmy: Yeah, different for sure. More frequent sub-perceptual use of psychedelics typically in a more day-to-day sense.

Nick: Which we’ve already recorded episodes on and we’re not going to cover that today. This pertains far more to what we’ll call a medium to large dose journey.

Jimmy: Yeah, exactly. The other piece of context that I want to discuss before we give folks a definitive answer, which surprise, surprise, we won’t, it’s very situational depending on the person.

Nick: But we can paint a pretty good picture on-

Jimmy: For sure, yeah.

Nick: -how to approach it.

The Role of Integration in Determining Frequency of Use

Jimmy: I think through our discussion. Our goal or intention for this episode is to give you the tools for you to arrive at your own decision and place around frequency with psychedelics. The different layers that I look at this are the physical component, your physiology, and the time it takes for you to reset and replenish neurotransmitters, chemicals, things within yourself. 

There’s also the mental state, there’s also the emotional state of where you’re at. The number one thing that I tell folks is that, “Sure, you can go online and folks will give you a range,” “Hey, wait at least two weeks, wait at least a month, wait so on and so forth.”

The best thing that I can share is the moment that you feel you’ve integrated as much as you can from your past experience. That then opens up the conversation on okay, “When do I need another experience, if any? To contextualize, there’s folks who have one experience and they plan for that and they’re like, “This is the one psychedelic experience that I’ll have in my life,” and that’s them.

There’s other folks who have, let’s say a yearly refresh, reset. There are folks who maybe are going through more intensive work in their process and they may feel a need to engage with psychedelics intentionally, ceremonially in a more frequent manner. 

At a base, I always tell folks to wait at least 30 days in between experiences, but that can really range and be dependent on the person, their process, their journey, their needs at the time.

Psychedelics as a Non-Prescriptive Approach to Mental Health

Nick: Yeah, the most important thing for me is that you focus on the journey that’s immediately in front of you. That’s the answer that I give to every single person that’s like, “How often should I do this? How many of these am I going to need?” I think that’s the way in which we get the question most frequently is like, “Well, how many times do I have to do this?” 

It’s like, well, if you actually devote all of your time and energy and resources to this, you can move the needle pretty far with one experience. The problem is trying to prescribe it. Anyone that tells you that you’re going to need two journeys, space 30 days apart, and then you’re good to go, I would run the other way.

Jimmy: “How many journeys do I need to have the 10 years of therapy that I was promised?” It’s kind of weirdly set up the way people think about psychedelic experiences. So, I hear you.

Nick: Anyone that prescribes you some sort of a protocol and guarantees a result, that’s a major red flag for me because there’s no possible way to predict how someone’s going to respond, nor how many sessions they’re going to need, nor how often to do them. 

The other thing that often gets brought up a lot is like, “Okay, well, I looked at some retreat center options and they do three journeys over a week. Now, anyone that’s had a medium dose journey-

Jimmy: It’s a lot. [laughs].

Nick: -they could probably tell you that after that first journey, you don’t feel like doing another one. You’re worked mentally, emotionally, and physically. It’s like going through the soul car wash. And so– [crosstalk]

Jimmy: Yeah, also add that your body uses a lot of serotonin, other different chemicals, endogenous chemicals. Your body is using a lot of blood glucose, a lot of sugar. Your body is just using a lot of resources to move through these experiences. 

You may need a certain dosage to elicit an experience on the first one. What I tell folks is that especially with psilocybin mushrooms, you start to build a tolerance immediately. That’s why there are off days with microdosing. 

So then you return on the following day and maybe you have to double your dosage to have an effect. I think the folks who do the international retreat work, it’s because you’re only there for a limited amount of time. The beauty of what’s happening in psychedelics in America or the United States is that more services are becoming available and accessible.

Nick: So, you don’t have to jam it into- 

Jimmy: Right.

Nick: -a four-day period.

Jimmy: Exactly. Which takes quite a wear on your body.

Nick: Yeah. Here’s the thing. More is not better. I think you hear this on the podcast a lot if you’d listen to any of our other episodes. Like, more dosage isn’t inherently better and more frequency isn’t inherently better. 

What Jimmy and I always relay is like, it’s all about how well you integrate the experience that you’ve already had because if you just jump from experience to experience, you could do five, six, seven, eight and not move the needle. Clearly, the number of ceremonies is not the determining factor here.

Jimmy: Right. Yeah, that’s actually a really important point that I want to hang with for a second. I really like what you said earlier. There’s this desire to prescribe or map out or as you always say, like template the experience. 

A, every psychedelic experience is different and so it’s impossible to predict how much work you’re doing in any particular experience. You may have the one where you’re like, “Okay, I need to take a break for a while because there was a lot of stuff that came up here.” I, for sure had experiences where I’m like, “Okay, I’m taking a break for a year now.”

Nick: I tell myself [Jimmy laughs] I’m never going to journey again. I’m like, “I’m never doing this again.”

Jimmy: There’s a dynamic there. What’s more important though is to know that the way that folks view psychedelics in our mainstream society, it’s also dependent on the way that we look at this type of work. The way that you look at mental health. 

The way that you look at any type of professional service, the way that you look at healing, the way that you look at substances. We’re kind of set up as a society to be like, “Oh, you have this issue? All right. Well, take this for 30 days, three a day, and report back and let us know how you’re feeling.” 

Psychedelics just for sure do not work like that. So, what I also think is important for us to discuss is what you were just saying, you were saying that more isn’t always better and that the continual chasing of psychedelic experiences is not always what will help you in your own healing process. I think that’s super important. 

What I find is that there is way too much emphasis and reliance on the actual trip itself, the actual ceremony. There’s just a lot of pressure built into what psychedelic experiences look like. It’s a tall order to walk in and expect all of the healing in your life in a four-to-six-hour period. 

Therefore, it’s also pretty somewhat irrational to be like, “Okay, I’m going to do all this work and four ceremonies and I’m going to have those at 30 days apart and then I’m going to be good after this.” I think that’s really intriguing that I think most folks don’t even know the kind of hidden layers on why they’re thinking about psychedelic experiences the way that they are in our society today.

Nick: Yeah. We live in a culture of prescribing things, whether it’s prescribing exercise. I mean even if you look at physical therapy, they’re like, “Okay, well a shoulder rehab takes roughly 8 to 12 weeks and you got to come in three times a week and then you’ll mostly better.” We’re talking about an incredibly more nuanced situation, similar to something like physical therapy. 

If you don’t do the exercises on your own, you don’t get better. Just relying on the 30 minutes a day that you’re in session with your therapist isn’t going to be enough. One of the things that we see, at least in the studies, is that they tend to be spaced out in three-to-four-week intervals in a lot of the research that’s done. 

From my personal experience and what I’ve seen with clients, that’s like the bare minimum in between because I’ll speak from my perspective, I do not want to be journeying every month or with monthly intervals. That is actually very frequent from my perspective.

Jimmy: It’s a lot. I think 30 days or three to four weeks is the minimum threshold for a physiological reset. I think that there’s a lot of evidence to say, “Okay, you’ll replenish your serotonin levels, you’ll get things back on track within 30 days for you to then engage in another psychedelic experience.” 

What I hear you saying is, “That’s a lot,” [laughs] ultimately. That’s a lot even for you and I, who probably have like hundreds of psychedelic experiences under our belt together. Especially if you’re newer to psychedelics, then there’s also budgetary issues, there’s lifestyle issues– 

Nick: Stability issues. 

Determining if You’re Ready For Another Psychedelic Journey

Jimmy: Right. Where you’re at emotionally, your stability in life, all of that stuff. I like where we’re going with this conversation because what we’re saying is, it’s not prescriptive, it depends, and that at a minimum, you should for sure be giving it 30 days, but in practicality, it’s likely going to be longer. 

The best thing that I tell folks in conversation or my clients and whatnot is that, you have to allow for a little bit of life to happen and occur in between experiences for you to have space and time for proper integration because that’s where the work is, it’s where the rubber meets the road. 

You have this big peak experience and then how does this play into my life? How does this change my perspective? How does this make me think about this? How does this make me explore this certain specific thing? You have to then be in the arena of life for you to be able to connect the dots.

Nick: Yeah, because life is what gives you the data points to go, “Ah, something might have shifted.” We’re often not aware of those shifts until we start engaging and then we go through life. Lo and behold there’s an event that would have triggered us before, and all of a sudden, we’re non-reactive. 

“Oh, look at that. How interesting that this thing that used to bother me before doesn’t anymore.” But had you not gone through life, you may not have realized that that shifted. There’s a lot to be said for getting some time in the playing field of life as you described it. 

Then the question I get is like, “Well, how do I know when I’m ready for another one?” I’ve come up with a pretty good answer for this one which is the same way you felt called to journey the first time, you’re going to feel the same call again. But here’s the deal, it’s going to come from here. 

I’m pointing to my heart and my body, not my mind, because the mind is going to go, “Oh, I haven’t done this in a while, I’ll probably do it again.” Are you really feeling that deep internal call for it or is it a should? Because the second you start should or shouldn’ting, it’s all mental.

Jimmy: Mm-hmm. Those are all the same principles and practices that we talk through in preparation and navigating psychedelic experiences in the integration process. It really is important for folks to tune in and listen to themselves. 

There are plenty of folks who become psychedelic curious and it takes them two or three years to feel like they put it all in place, that they found the right person, that they’re ready at a stage in their life, that they’ve done enough research, that they’ve done so on and so forth.

Conversely, there are people who feel that calling like you’re saying, and a month later they’re engaged in service with a facilitator or going on an international retreat. I like what you said about it not being a mental exercise here. 

Of course, the mind does play into it, but it’s not this algorithm that you can solve and put in all the inputs and you’re like, “You’re due for another psychedelic experience [Nick laughs] in 7.4 days.” You know what I mean? [chuckles] That’s not how life works, you know?

Nick: Yeah, well–

Jimmy:  I hear you with that.

Nick: That’s what people want. They don’t want the unknown.

Jimmy: Well, this is the whole part of it where I think ultimately there is a lot of promising potential with psychedelics. I think the downside of that is that it puts a lot of dependence upon psychedelic experiences in a way that can detract somebody from their own inner resourcing. 

Ultimately psychedelics are an external thing. And if you’ve heard any episodes that we’ve talked about in the past or listened, read, any of our content, the real work is internal. And, by the way, you’re the only one who can do the work. 

Some things that I ask myself internally when I’m thinking about when the next experience should be, I’m questioning, “Okay, how much reliance am I putting on the experience?” If there’s any part where I’m wanting psilocybin or LSD or ayahuasca to do the heavy lifting and work for me then I’m like “Mm, I should probably look into this further and hold off.” 

What we say is that psychedelics can be a catalyst to your healing journey but not a replacement. By the way, you don’t need a catalyst constantly. There are sometimes in your process where you actually need for things to settle a little bit too.

Nick: Well, you touched on this, but I want to highlight it, which is the second we start relying on something external, something outside of ourselves, we’re no longer free. Now we’re just dependent on another substance. 

Sure, it grows in nature, and sure, it’s natural and arguably healthier than a lot of prescription medications, but you’re still relying on something outside of yourself. I had this experience the other day where I was doing an integration session with a client, and they were like, “I think I’m ready to go again.” 

By the end of the hour, they were like, “Oh, I’m actually not ready to go again.” What happened was that I reached the limit of the tools and the frameworks that I had for integration, and what I really needed was an additional set of tools and frameworks to take me through this next phase of integration

Oftentimes when we feel like we’re at the end of our rope, so to speak, and we need that ceremony, that’s not always what we need. Sometimes we need more tools in our belt to approach the integration as we go through life, and that actually buys us a lot more time before the next ceremony.

Jimmy: Yeah. Taking it to the medicine shouldn’t be your first and only option. Once you feel like you’ve done as much work as you can, then something will come up to be like, “Okay, I think I’m ready for my next one.” To your point, is it that you are ready for the next one, or is it that you need to expand?

Nick: Yeah, like you hit the limitation of the tools that you have.

Assessing The Motivating Factors For Seeking Another Journey

Jimmy: -of just where you’re at. Sure. That’s a different conversation than whether you’re ready, “for another experience or not.” I think what we’re leading to here in this part of our dialogue is that–

It requires a lot of internal discovery and internal questioning for an individual to clarify the motivating factors around seeking another experience. Is it coming from, I’m still feeling stuck? Is it coming from, “Okay, now I need another booster?”

Nick: “I can’t get back to the place that I was in during ceremony.”

Jimmy: Is it not enough? Or conversely, I now feel like I’ve done everything that I can do here, and now I’m being called to take whatever this is to the medicine again. That’s different. 

Such a different energy in approaching because in these containers, all of that stuff shows up in medicine, in this medicine work. If there’s any instance of you internally being like, “Ah, I’m not enough to do this on my own.” So, now I got to go and seek the mushroom or seek the whatnot. That stuff is going to show up in your psychedelic experiences one way.

Nick: Well, and it often perpetuates that underlying wound. If you’re already dealing with this thing of, like, “I don’t feel I’m enough,” and then you rely on the mushrooms to make you feel like you’re enough, you’re just perpetuating the same wound. 

It’s seeking external validation, external reinforcement that you are in fact enough. The question is, “Well, if a client came to me in that kind of state,” it’d be like, “Okay, well, what are you doing to nurture your feeling of being enough in your day-to-day life?” 

Because that’s where it actually matters. You and I talk about this a lot, but if you’re not actually moving the needle in the way that you experience life on a day-to-day basis, what’s the point of any of this?

Jimmy: Yeah. Another version of that comes up is especially folks who are seeking more spiritually oriented experiences and they’re like, “I want to have that deeper connection to what I believe the higher power is.”

Or, “I want to have a more sacred connection to myself,” or X, Y, Z. The question that comes up is, “What are you doing to cultivate that in your day-to-day?” Is there something there that can be looked at before you explore a future experience?

Nick: Exactly. But all this to say, for most people, it’s going to require multiple sessions. There’s a very, very few accounts of, like, one and done.

Jimmy: Sure.

Nick: The question of how frequent is going to be directly correlated to your ability to integrate. I would plan if you’re really, truly earnestly embarking on this journey, you should probably plan that if this is a lifelong path for you that you’re not just going to have one. 

I mean, for some people that is the case, but I would say that’s the exception more than the rule. The analogy that I often use is like these layers of the onion, and if you’ve got your true essence in the middle and then you’ve got all these layers of shock, shame, trauma, conditioning, the outermost layers are often the stickiest, and we can get through a few of those in the first experience. 

If I look at my own trajectory with psychedelics, when I first started approaching them ceremonially, I definitely had to do a couple of ceremonies and call it a couple year period to really dig through those outermost layers. Now I find that I’m in much more of like a maintenance mode than like, “Oh, my God, I got to solve and dig myself out of this.”

Jimmy: Yeah, I really hear that. I’ll add that– it also depends on your life. If you feel like you have the space, time, bandwidth, emotional support, community support, a therapist, like, are you going through a really stressful time at work that eats up 90% of your time in the day? 

Because if that’s the case, then you can have 10 psychedelic experiences in that time. If you come out feeling like, “Okay, I can’t prioritize this, then-

Nick: It doesn’t matter.

Jimmy: -you’re going to be spinning around in circles. What I found in my own life is that it does really ebb and flow to how much support I have around me to navigate a psychedelic experience. And life comes in seasons. 

I definitely think that this comes up a lot for more elderly folks, because I think folks in the later ages of their life have the sense that time is ticking. And so, there’s this sense on, “Well, I want to pack in as many experiences as I need while I’m healthy, while I’m capable, while I’m all of that.” I’m not saying that that’s right or wrong. 

I’m using that to illustrate my point here that it’s conditional based [chuckles] on your life. I don’t want to be too ambiguous here but I think what I’m leading to, the kind of things that are coming up for me and themes of this conversation is really looking at your why. 

Why is it that I’m seeking this experience and going through internal checks and balances on whether it’s coming from a grounded, meaningful place as opposed to lack or scarcity or not-enoughness or whatnot?

I think a real internal inventory on where your mindsets at, where you’re at emotionally, where you’re at physically. I think also an inventory on what’s going on in your life at any particular time. Other than that, I think it’s this whole conversation about how much reliance am I putting on any particular thing, a mushroom or a psychedelic or whatnot versus my own work in this process. 

I love to say this every episode, but Nick, you, and I both know plenty of “psychonauts” who have had hundreds and hundreds of experiences and you can very much tell that they’re not doing a lot of internal work.

Reviewing Past Clients’ Frequency of Use Timelines

Nick: Well, it’s not embodied. You can have plenty of peak experiences and not embody anything that you learn. For me, like, this whole thing comes down to embodiment. Have you integrated that change into your being? If not, then there’s probably still a lot on the table for you benefit-wise from prior journeys that simply have not been honed into your state of being. 

I want to perhaps do our best to give real examples of timelines that we’ve seen. If I think back to the clients that I’ve served in the past and those who have come back for repeat ceremonies, probably the shortest amount of time I’ve seen between journeys is like six months. I’m curious what you–

Jimmy: I’ve seen clients with a little bit more, I call it “content” like they’re at a place in their life where they do want to do more heavy lifting around their process. Even then, the fastest frequency is like three months, every three to four months. 

I’ve had some clients who feel they’re on like a three-journey arc as well or four-journey arc and so they’re very clear, okay, like “In my communion with the medicine or whatnot.” I feel three is right and then that gets scheduled over a year and a half even. That’s that six-month mark you’re sharing. 

I have had some folks who have come back for an experience 30 days later, but that’s really in specific scenarios where they very much feel like something is in process, something is somewhat unfinished or they’re getting that signal, okay, this is the time to do some intensive work. Even then, I really don’t recommend the 30-day, I personally think it’s too short.

Nick: Well, and there’s other tools, right?

Jimmy: Yeah.

Exploring Supplementary Mental Health Tools

Nick: So, this is a perfect example where if that content is just beyond reach in your normal state of being, maybe a micro-dose is just what’s needed to knock it loose and allow it to come bubbling up to the surface. This is what I talk about, where there’s other tools that are available to you besides jumping headfirst into another medium to large dose journey. 

Things like meditating, journaling, reaching back out to your facilitator for an integration session, playing around with micro-dosing. There’s lots of different tools that can start to help us move past a plateau without relying on a full-blown ceremony.

Jimmy: Yep, starting therapy, starting a physical hobby or activity, reading a book that’s not related to psychedelics, but actually has to do with whatever process you’re in. I’ll share from my own personal life. 

You know I had a really challenging December and that came on the spur or on the back end of a psychedelic experience and I had a really [chuckles] rough reentry integration period. There was a part of me that was like, “All right, we’ll just take this back to the medicine.” 

There was another part of me was like, “That is so disrespectful to the medicine that I’m just looking for this out to go back into a ceremony to address the shi*.” I had a really deep internal process. By the way, all the stuff that we tell you folks listening are all the things that Nick and I try to do in our own lives as well, so we’re trying to walk the walk as best as we can.

Nick: Well, I don’t even think we know how to navigate this if we hadn’t gone through it ourselves.

Jimmy: [laughs] Yeah, for sure. I had a real honest sit with this. I started with a new therapist, I started reading more books, I started to identify, “Oh, there’s a whole bunch of stuff that I’m missing in my day-to-day in bringing back my sacred practices and bringing back my emphasis on mindfulness and all of that. 

What I arrived at after all the stuff that we’re talking about, my own implementation here, is that after many clients served and after hundreds of experiences and whatever, I was falling into the same trap, relying on the medicine a little bit too much. 

Having a little too frequent of experiences, not doing my own internal work. I was like, “I need to get back to a place where I’m showing the medicine that I’m doing my part in everyday sober life.” 

At one point, I’ll have that inclination to show back up in medicine work with much more respect and much like all of that. I just hope that highlights that the content that we’re talking about in this episode applies to everyone, regardless of if you’re new to psychedelics or if you’re “seasoned,” or [crosstalk] not.

Nick: And it’s not specific to just mushrooms. This applies to any serotonergic psychedelic substance, like anything that’s going to induce a truly altered state of consciousness and you’re approaching it in that medium to high dose range. These are very profound, powerful experiences that really should be spaced out.

Jimmy: Mm-hmm. Regardless of the content of the experience because folks can come out of experiences feeling amazing, they are like, “Everything’s clicking, [crosstalk] in the flow.”

Nick: Afterglow.

Jimmy: Yeah, there’s that afterglow and all of that. Those folks should also wait. It’s not just for folks who have challenging, difficult, overwhelming, they’re like, “I need to process this.” 

I think that it applies across the board, regardless of how your experience shaped up to be, because of what we’re talking about, being in the arena of life, like allowing things to unfold, like reestablishing your baseline before you move forward into another psychedelic experience.

Nick: Totally.

Jimmy: Do you think we’ve been tangible and direct enough and actionable enough for our listeners? That’s always something that I have in the back of my mind, I guess. Is there anything else that we’d share that would help folks in this regard?

A Brief Recap on Frequency of Use

Nick: Maybe a recap? Wait a minimum. Minimum, minimum, minimum of 30 days. Integrate fully. Approach the ceremony that you just had or that’s right in front of you as if it’s the only one, and then wait for the call, because you’ll hear it. 

You’ll feel it the same way that you felt it the first time, that same sensation will come over you, and it’ll be this deep knowing within your being of like, “Okay, yep, I’m ready again.” But If you’re not there and you’re mentally trying to convince yourself, forget it.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Nick: That’s not the right time.

Jimmy: Yeah, the other one that I’ll add was your point about using all of your tools and using all of your outlets and knowing that psychedelics are not– it’s not the only tool. [laughs] 

It can be a favorite one [laughs] [crosstalk] there’s a lot of folks who are like, “Yeah, this is my favorite tool for exploring my consciousness and healing.” Sure, I get that. But if you only have psychedelic tools in your tool belt, then it’s not going to work in real life.

Nick: It’s definitely going to fall short. I mean, the thing that I always go back to is like, deep down, all of us want to be free. What I mean by that is none of us want to be reliant on anything external to feel the way that we want to feel. 

We just want that inside of us innately. The second we start relying on something outside of ourselves, we’re right back in that trap of essentially relying on something outside of ourselves to feel the way that we want to feel. That’s just not the goal here, from my perspective.

Jimmy: Yeah, well said. Well, the main thing is that you’re going to get a lot of opinions from different folks. Facilitators– [crosstalk]

Nick: That’s a fact.

Jimmy: Your facilitators, your friends, your– [crosstalk]

Nick: Your retreat center, everyone’s going to have their reasoning for doing it the way that they do.

Jimmy: Everyone’s going to be like, “This is the proprietary thing that I’ve developed to increase results,” and all of that.

Nick: Also run the other way. [laughs]

Jimmy: Yeah, listen, I’m not saying that there’s not folks who have done this work quite a bit and that they have created an environment that primes you in the best way possible, whether that be the frequency, location, their modalities of work and all of that. 

That’s exactly what you’re talking about. The reliance on external stuff because we’re talking about your heart, your mind, and your soul here, your spirit. I don’t think any of that is prescribed to any specific timeline or whatever. 

The moment that somebody’s like, “Yeah, I have this proprietary system, you’re going to move through, we’re going to do these intensive things and so on and so–” even if we’re going to start with MDMA and then move you through psilocybin, which is a relic of a lot of the underground work that was happening.

Nick: And it assumes that the facilitator knows what’s best for you.

Jimmy: Totally.

Nick: [crosstalk] -like, give me a break. Come on. You think that we’re all able to respond in the exact same way to someone’s protocol? There’s no way. We’re all deeply unique humans and it’s going to vary from person to person. 

I also had this funny thought as you were sharing, which is that the irony is that one of the things the mushrooms teach us is that time is just a construct anyway. [Jimmy laughs] This whole timeline- 

Jimmy: It’s so right. [laughs]

Nick: -discussion is deeply ironic for anyone that’s actually journeyed before and has experienced time dilation because what is it anyway?

Jimmy: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that’s so right. I love that. Yeah, I feel good. I hope that this has been a helpful dialogue to our listeners. I hope that we’ve blended enough theoretical, philosophy with like tangibleness or tangibility that’s really works for us.

Nick: And also, if you guys have questions we didn’t answer, reach out to us on social, email, whatever method you want to get in contact with us, but we’ll happily record a follow-up episode or at least just address your question. That brings us to the end of our episode for today. 

You can find all of our episodes on all major streaming platforms Apple Podcast, Amazon, Spotify, IHeartRadio, or wherever else you get your podcast. If you like the show, please rate and review us. It helps others find the show, and we look forward to tuning in with you guys next week.

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Public education on this topic is the number one way to engage social support for this psychedelic mental health movement. Thus, we invite you to head on over to our resources page for more informative articles like this one. As always, safe and mindful journeying, friends!

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At Psychedelic Passage, we offer professional 1-on-1 guidance and companionship on your journey of healing. We simply can't sit back and let Americans continue to sit in silent suffering trying to battle mental health issues within a broken health care system, all while knowing that effective alternatives exist. We stand for the sacred, at-home, ceremonial use of psychedelics for consciousness exploration, which we believe to be a fundamental human right.

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